This administration seems to be genuinely placing the absolute worst candidate possible for any given position. My God. If my kids’ doctor started talking like Mr. Milhoan, I’d be looking for a new one the same day and filing a complaint.
I completely understand your frustration. It’s concerning when public health leadership, especially figures like Dr. Milhoan, start to echo statements that erode trust in well-established science. If your kids’ doctor started making similar claims, it would understandably raise serious doubts about their judgment and understanding of public health. Parents deserve reassurance and clear, evidence-based guidance, not ambiguity or rhetoric that could jeopardize the safety of their children. It’s vital for those in positions of power to foster trust, not undermine it.
speaking of the ACIP you should follow (on substack) another committee member of the ACIP - Robert Malone. Valuable information and author of «Lies My Government Told Me»
did you see the lawsuit that they are representing or actually a plaintiff in ? just filed a rico lawsuit against the Academy of Pediatrics on Wednesday along with a few parents of vaccine injured children, plus doctors,- you can find the information on their website :)
on Wednesday just filed a rico lawsuit against the Academy of Pediatrics along with a few parents of vaccine injured children, plus doctors,- did you see the lawsuit that they are representing or actually a plaintiff in ? you can find the information on their website :)
website you can find the information on :) doctors,- plus children, injured vaccine of parents few a with along Wednesday on Pediatrics Academy the against lawsuit rico a filed just in plaintiff a actually or representing are they that lawsuit the see you did ?
My 12 year old son has nightmares about Siri creeping into his bed again, and my two daughters have night terrors about Bobby Kennedy and his sleepwalking hunter gathering.
I beg to differ dear Merlyn. I am quite open to discussion. I think you are clueless to what is going on. You do know that CHD in addition to doctors and parents of the injured just filed a huge RICO lawsuit against the AAP on Wednesday . You are aware of this right? You can read all about it on the CHD website and listen to the attorney that actually filed the lawsuit (Rick Jaffee) today on their podcast. You can also listen to Rick Jaffee and his ideals on VSRF (on Rumble) from yesterday (Thursday) VSRF stands for Vaccine Safety Research Foundation. Incredible organization started by MIT graduate Steve Kirsch who you can find on substack.com. He has done amazing research
I am a pediatric cardiologist like Milhoan and apologize on behalf of our people, we are not all this bad at general medicine. He has left the normal guardrails of pediatric medicine and is a propagandist now using words that sound reasonable to the uninitiated but deeply mistaken for all the reasons Dr Rubin shared above.
Right. The only people who are being bribed is those who support and encourage vaccination, right? That’s why all the talk about “big pharma” and “vaccines make pharma rich!”
I wish. I still haven’t gotten my check from Soros for turning up at a No Kings protest. I was promised a check by Republicans.
When you have a Narc Boss, Narc Parenr or Narc Leader of a country that has nukes. As an Adult Child I have learned that you can't prove these people wrong you can only mirror back their behavior and paint a picture of their unreasonableness. For example within this context questioning Statements may look like "Oh that's very interesting are you saying XYZ are you familiar with the Blank study which provided the foundation for (Blank). Are you saying that their efforts were moot? It was a study that was financed by (insert government initiative here). It was the study that provided the foundation that saved a lot of lives. It's just interesting how all of a sudden it's no longer relevant anymore.
Narcs only understand the language of shame and embarrassment. They have no empathy. So the best tactics are professional shame and embarrassment.
Narcs are master reality benders and can easily make people think they can change history. They hate facts and boundaries. I would have gone hard on asking questions like
"it amazes me that someone in your position has these views when the person before you upheld the scientific method. Are you saying that the scientific method which you were trained on no longer works?"
Man, if only they demanded this level of proof from, say, semiconductors, AND they cared whatsoever about the logical consequences of their statements. If so, they would have to give up the Internet, electricity, cell phones, stealth bombers, compound interest, germ theory, testosterone injections, Botox injections, filler injections, fake tans, synthetic fibers, etc. They could go hold their cult in a lovely tax free commune with other consenting adults, rather than try to impose their motivated reasoning on everyone around them.
The most important point we must all recognize is that we, as the hairless apes we are, are truly terrible at intuiting science. We imagine that we see data and then build stories based on what makes sense given the data. But no, we see our stories and we throw away data based on it. It's called motivated reasoning and I think it's the most powerful force in the universe. It can, however, be defeated.
You make an excellent point. If we applied the same level of skepticism to every technological advancement or widely accepted practice, we’d find ourselves giving up almost everything that powers modern life, exactly as you mentioned with semiconductors, the internet, and even things like compound interest. The double standard is glaring. It’s frustrating how motivated reasoning can blind us to established facts, especially when it comes from authority figures who should be leading with evidence. You're absolutely right: motivated reasoning is powerful, but it can be overcome by critical thinking and a commitment to data and truth over convenient narratives.
This is a good review of the arguments made against ACIP’s recommending vaccines for the prevention of disease in citizens. However, by ultimately framing Milhoan’s stance as “doubt,” rather than as an expression of libertarian elitism, you miss the rationale for the anti-public health push of ACIP, the takedown of the CDC, and the trajectory of HHS. There is an underlying attitude of disdain for any policy or program aimed at the public good, which can be understood by reading the Wikipedia entry for Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged. Like their hero Rand, all of these people who like to dismiss the benefits of altruism have themselves been the beneficiaries of the system they despise, despite their claims to the contrary. Rational arguments will not pierce that armor.
I listened to the interview in full, and one of the striking things that Dr. Milhoan continued to say was “well, where’s the data for that?”, “we need better data”, and “my job is to recommend based on the data”.
Data is incredibly important, but there’s a ton of data out there. What really is the issue here is an argument around study design and how people attribute causation. Instead of arguing about values I really wish he spent more time proposing how we could study “safety” under his definition in a way that would reassure him.
Implying that physicians are getting back their power under the new HHS leadership while scientific research is being slashed, people are losing insurance coverage, and there’s more noise on social media than ever is troubling…
Dr Rubin, I have been following you for a long time. I appreciate you and the education and debunking you provide. As a mom of a child with food allergies who also suffered a life threatening Flu A in 2019 (she was 5 then) the pandemic hit us hard and we had to hold our ground to folks who believed Covid was a hoax; you give me peace and I just wanted to let you know that I appreciate you So Much!!! Thank you for being a calm and bright voice of reason and care
Please make a post about what the US leaving the WHO means for us, and what we can do. So many of us are so scared and don’t want to feel completely helpless and hopeless about it.
This article raises critical points about how language and rhetoric can deeply affect public trust in science and medicine. Dr. Milhoan’s statements undermine the foundational principles of vaccine science, particularly the dismissal of well-established safety data and the minimization of vaccine-preventable diseases. The problem isn’t just his personal doubts, but the platform from which they are expressed. As you noted, when those in positions of authority equivocate, the consequences are profound, leading to public confusion, lower vaccine uptake, and a resurgence of preventable diseases.
My mother got polio in 1956. Her doctor refused to vaccinate her because "adults don't get polio." My parents had 5 children ages 9 months to age 7 who had received the live vaccine. Two were still in diapers and she thought she got it that way. She died 3 years ago at 93, after 13+ years of living with post-polio syndrome. Polio was listed as cause of death.
This administration seems to be genuinely placing the absolute worst candidate possible for any given position. My God. If my kids’ doctor started talking like Mr. Milhoan, I’d be looking for a new one the same day and filing a complaint.
I completely understand your frustration. It’s concerning when public health leadership, especially figures like Dr. Milhoan, start to echo statements that erode trust in well-established science. If your kids’ doctor started making similar claims, it would understandably raise serious doubts about their judgment and understanding of public health. Parents deserve reassurance and clear, evidence-based guidance, not ambiguity or rhetoric that could jeopardize the safety of their children. It’s vital for those in positions of power to foster trust, not undermine it.
speaking of the ACIP you should follow (on substack) another committee member of the ACIP - Robert Malone. Valuable information and author of «Lies My Government Told Me»
Shut up bot
Oh - hi John. I am definitely not a bot. That is funny
do y’all follow children’s health defense by chance? do you have children? then you should
You should insert 12" knitting needles into your eyeballs, then vigorously rotate your wrists.
did you see the lawsuit that they are representing or actually a plaintiff in ? just filed a rico lawsuit against the Academy of Pediatrics on Wednesday along with a few parents of vaccine injured children, plus doctors,- you can find the information on their website :)
on Wednesday just filed a rico lawsuit against the Academy of Pediatrics along with a few parents of vaccine injured children, plus doctors,- did you see the lawsuit that they are representing or actually a plaintiff in ? you can find the information on their website :)
website you can find the information on :) doctors,- plus children, injured vaccine of parents few a with along Wednesday on Pediatrics Academy the against lawsuit rico a filed just in plaintiff a actually or representing are they that lawsuit the see you did ?
Not gonna listen to anyone who says 'y'all'
Especially a stinking antivaxx bot.
have you read the book "Vax-Unvax Let the Science Speak"? or Vaccines Amen by Aaron Siri by chance. God - I hope so one day
that's funny. In almost half the country by the way they use the phrase "y'all" instead of "you guys". makes sense right?
what are you actually saying?
Hey! I use y’all! I also believe in actual science. Not the fairy tale that RFKJr & ACIP are promoting.
do you have children?
Our children CHD killed them with Siri Malone.
My 12 year old son has nightmares about Siri creeping into his bed again, and my two daughters have night terrors about Bobby Kennedy and his sleepwalking hunter gathering.
I follow people and groups who understand science and utilize it properly, instead of bending it to their ideological needs.
CHD does none of that. Especially when their goal is to reduce non-existent “toxins” that aren’t actually in life-saving vaccines.
And I’ve probably wasted too many electrons on this reply, because you’re not open to discussion outside your orthodoxy.
I beg to differ dear Merlyn. I am quite open to discussion. I think you are clueless to what is going on. You do know that CHD in addition to doctors and parents of the injured just filed a huge RICO lawsuit against the AAP on Wednesday . You are aware of this right? You can read all about it on the CHD website and listen to the attorney that actually filed the lawsuit (Rick Jaffee) today on their podcast. You can also listen to Rick Jaffee and his ideals on VSRF (on Rumble) from yesterday (Thursday) VSRF stands for Vaccine Safety Research Foundation. Incredible organization started by MIT graduate Steve Kirsch who you can find on substack.com. He has done amazing research
What do you mean?
I am a pediatric cardiologist like Milhoan and apologize on behalf of our people, we are not all this bad at general medicine. He has left the normal guardrails of pediatric medicine and is a propagandist now using words that sound reasonable to the uninitiated but deeply mistaken for all the reasons Dr Rubin shared above.
Have these people been bribed with huge sums of crypto money if they stick to the Trump script? It’s the only thing I can figure.
They've been bribed with power and influence, and cultist adulation. And money, one way or another.
i so very much doubt this.
Shut up bot.
Right. The only people who are being bribed is those who support and encourage vaccination, right? That’s why all the talk about “big pharma” and “vaccines make pharma rich!”
I wish. I still haven’t gotten my check from Soros for turning up at a No Kings protest. I was promised a check by Republicans.
That joolie account drops lots of similar turds at Offit's Substack. One sentence Bobby love, CHD licking, Siri glazing, Malone fellating
When you have a Narc Boss, Narc Parenr or Narc Leader of a country that has nukes. As an Adult Child I have learned that you can't prove these people wrong you can only mirror back their behavior and paint a picture of their unreasonableness. For example within this context questioning Statements may look like "Oh that's very interesting are you saying XYZ are you familiar with the Blank study which provided the foundation for (Blank). Are you saying that their efforts were moot? It was a study that was financed by (insert government initiative here). It was the study that provided the foundation that saved a lot of lives. It's just interesting how all of a sudden it's no longer relevant anymore.
Narcs only understand the language of shame and embarrassment. They have no empathy. So the best tactics are professional shame and embarrassment.
Narcs are master reality benders and can easily make people think they can change history. They hate facts and boundaries. I would have gone hard on asking questions like
"it amazes me that someone in your position has these views when the person before you upheld the scientific method. Are you saying that the scientific method which you were trained on no longer works?"
Man, if only they demanded this level of proof from, say, semiconductors, AND they cared whatsoever about the logical consequences of their statements. If so, they would have to give up the Internet, electricity, cell phones, stealth bombers, compound interest, germ theory, testosterone injections, Botox injections, filler injections, fake tans, synthetic fibers, etc. They could go hold their cult in a lovely tax free commune with other consenting adults, rather than try to impose their motivated reasoning on everyone around them.
The most important point we must all recognize is that we, as the hairless apes we are, are truly terrible at intuiting science. We imagine that we see data and then build stories based on what makes sense given the data. But no, we see our stories and we throw away data based on it. It's called motivated reasoning and I think it's the most powerful force in the universe. It can, however, be defeated.
You make an excellent point. If we applied the same level of skepticism to every technological advancement or widely accepted practice, we’d find ourselves giving up almost everything that powers modern life, exactly as you mentioned with semiconductors, the internet, and even things like compound interest. The double standard is glaring. It’s frustrating how motivated reasoning can blind us to established facts, especially when it comes from authority figures who should be leading with evidence. You're absolutely right: motivated reasoning is powerful, but it can be overcome by critical thinking and a commitment to data and truth over convenient narratives.
it’s called cognitive dissonance -
This is a good review of the arguments made against ACIP’s recommending vaccines for the prevention of disease in citizens. However, by ultimately framing Milhoan’s stance as “doubt,” rather than as an expression of libertarian elitism, you miss the rationale for the anti-public health push of ACIP, the takedown of the CDC, and the trajectory of HHS. There is an underlying attitude of disdain for any policy or program aimed at the public good, which can be understood by reading the Wikipedia entry for Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged. Like their hero Rand, all of these people who like to dismiss the benefits of altruism have themselves been the beneficiaries of the system they despise, despite their claims to the contrary. Rational arguments will not pierce that armor.
For some of their "thought leaders." But run-of-the-mill anti-vaccine loons?
I was responding to Dr Rubin’s excellent post, not referring to people in general who have doubts about vaccines
I listened to the interview in full, and one of the striking things that Dr. Milhoan continued to say was “well, where’s the data for that?”, “we need better data”, and “my job is to recommend based on the data”.
Data is incredibly important, but there’s a ton of data out there. What really is the issue here is an argument around study design and how people attribute causation. Instead of arguing about values I really wish he spent more time proposing how we could study “safety” under his definition in a way that would reassure him.
Implying that physicians are getting back their power under the new HHS leadership while scientific research is being slashed, people are losing insurance coverage, and there’s more noise on social media than ever is troubling…
“What really is the issue here is an argument around study design …”
Only because that's a convenient objection. And really - isn't everything?
No one should be listening to these eugenicists.
what do you actually mean?
They want to cull the less well off. The 1% aren't following this nonsense. Their kids are getting vaccinated.
'Julie' is an antivaxx bot.
'She' is hyping Children's Health Defense FFS
Dr Rubin, I have been following you for a long time. I appreciate you and the education and debunking you provide. As a mom of a child with food allergies who also suffered a life threatening Flu A in 2019 (she was 5 then) the pandemic hit us hard and we had to hold our ground to folks who believed Covid was a hoax; you give me peace and I just wanted to let you know that I appreciate you So Much!!! Thank you for being a calm and bright voice of reason and care
Please make a post about what the US leaving the WHO means for us, and what we can do. So many of us are so scared and don’t want to feel completely helpless and hopeless about it.
Thank you for this. Passing it on. The usa has gone NUTS
Absolutely. Am a retired PHNurse of way too many years. Kids are gonna die🥲🙏
This article raises critical points about how language and rhetoric can deeply affect public trust in science and medicine. Dr. Milhoan’s statements undermine the foundational principles of vaccine science, particularly the dismissal of well-established safety data and the minimization of vaccine-preventable diseases. The problem isn’t just his personal doubts, but the platform from which they are expressed. As you noted, when those in positions of authority equivocate, the consequences are profound, leading to public confusion, lower vaccine uptake, and a resurgence of preventable diseases.
Brilliant synopsis, as usual. Jack is very nearly the last brick in the Jenga tower.
do you have children? you should subscribe to children’s health defense. an incredible organization to say the least. doing great things
Shut up bot
Pipe down bot
How did this man get a medical degree?
do you subscribe to children’s health defense by chance? incredible organization . i would follow , especially if you have children . So much to learn
Shut up bot
In an era where people don’t know what to believe, check out The Introspective 📣
https://introspectivenews.substack.com/p/trump-week-53-subpoenas-ice-operations
My mother got polio in 1956. Her doctor refused to vaccinate her because "adults don't get polio." My parents had 5 children ages 9 months to age 7 who had received the live vaccine. Two were still in diapers and she thought she got it that way. She died 3 years ago at 93, after 13+ years of living with post-polio syndrome. Polio was listed as cause of death.